Talk:Christmas

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Christmas is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.

Article milestones Date Process Result August 24, 2004 Peer review Reviewed December 23, 2004 Featured article candidate Promoted January 1, 2006 Featured article review Demoted August 8, 2006 Featured article candidate Not promoted January 1, 2007 Peer review Reviewed December 9, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed December 15, 2008 Featured article candidate Not promoted November 24, 2010 Good article nominee Not listed Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on January 7, 2005, December 25, 2005, January 7, 2006, December 25, 2006, January 7, 2007, December 25, 2007, January 7, 2008, December 25, 2008, January 7, 2009, December 25, 2009, January 7, 2011, December 25, 2011, January 7, 2013, December 25, 2013, January 7, 2014, December 25, 2014, January 7, 2015, December 25, 2015, January 7, 2016, December 25, 2016, January 7, 2017, December 25, 2017, January 7, 2018, December 25, 2018, January 7, 2019, December 25, 2019, January 7, 2020, December 25, 2020, January 7, 2021, December 25, 2021, January 7, 2022, December 25, 2022, January 7, 2023, December 25, 2023, January 7, 2024, December 25, 2024, January 7, 2025, and December 25, 2025. Current status: Former featured article

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Semi-protected edit request on 26 November 2025

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Change "probably in 388" to "in 386" in the History section.

Reason: The scholarly consensus, as documented in the Catholic Encyclopedia and numerous other sources, is that John Chrysostom delivered his Christmas sermon in Antioch in 386 AD, shortly after his ordination as presbyter in February of that year. While the scholar Usener proposed 388 as an alternative date, this view has been largely rejected. The current text "probably in 388" contradicts the accepted scholarly consensus of 386. Glitc5 (talk) 16:21, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Question: Can you please provide the sources you are talking about? NotJamestack (✉️|📝) 16:43, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize for the late reply, I'm at work. I've found a source here, and the abstract for it is here. Additionally, the Catholic Encyclopedia Volume 3 Christmas section regarding Antioch (found here thanks to new advent) says that it was "Almost certainly in 386". Compromise might be to change "Probably in 388" to "Probably in 386", although most seem to concur regarding 386, shortly after Saint John Chrysostom was ordained as a priest. Glitc5 (talk) 17:50, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

My bad! Long day. Seems I was confused in the first source, that's from a separate homily against the jews in the same year. Please disregard! My source from the Catholic Encyclopedia still stands. Glitc5 (talk) 17:53, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: I don't think there are grounds to make this edit based on the Catholic Encyclopedia as the sole source for the claim. The Catholic Encyclopedia is infamously extremely out of date, having not been updated since 1907. It cannot reliably be used as a source for a claim about modern scholarly consensus. From a brief internet search, there also seem to be some concerns about bias in this encyclopedia on certain topics. If there are numerous sources, please cite some others, and the edit can be considered on the combined strength of the multiple sources. SI09 (talk) 12:51, 27 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies. While I could cite the numerous websites that hold 386, it doesn't seem any of the sources would be taken seriously as they're largely from biased church based institutions and I struggle to find something concrete from an unbiased point of view. I apologize for wasting time and appreciate the correction on The Catholic Encyclopedia, which I had thought was a direct source from the church itself and not an unaffiliated publication. Thank you for your time. Glitc5 (talk) 12:47, 28 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Earliest document?

The article currently says that: "The earliest document to place Jesus's birthday on December 25 is the Chronograph of 354 (also called the Calendar of Filocalus)"

This is incorrect. The earliest mention I'm aware of is Hippolytus of Rome's Commentary on Daniel: "23.3. For the first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, eight days before the kalends of January [i.e. the 25th of December]," (page 140). This is around 150 years before the Chronograph of 354. Can the article please be amended accordingly? XJDHDR (talk) 00:43, 13 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Date format

I find it weird that a MDY tag was added to this page, as it mostly concerns the history of Middle Eastern and European countries, all of which use the DMY date format. — Est. 2021 (talk · contribs) 09:05, 23 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The original date format used in this article was MDY from 2001, and since the subject doesn't have a strong national tie to any specific country we retain it (see MOS:DATERET). You can argue about which countries are most connected with its history, but it's not as if the U.S. hasn't had a very significant impact on its modern customs and celebrations. Also, regarding Middle Eastern and European countries, remember that we only look to English-speaking countries as per MOS:DATERET. McRandy1958 (talk) 20:05, 23 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 24 December 2025

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The article correctly refers to "part" of the Eastern Christian Churches celebrating Christmas according to the Julian Calendar. It would be helpful please if you could add a short sentence saying that "most of the churches in the Greek Orthodox tradition have adopted the revised (new) calendar harmonising the Church dates with the civil record."

I have the authority to request this addition as I am a Greek Orthodox priest (Patriarchate of Antioch).

Archpriest Gregory Hallam Archpriest Gregory Hallam (talk) 19:38, 24 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want made. FMRadio :3_{(chat | edits | she/her)} 19:46, 24 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

How about this article from the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of North America? [1] - Patriarchate of Constantinople. Tomorrow is Christmas Day for us, not January 7th. There is tacit acceptance of this difference between the Orthodox churches in the article that uses the word "part" - yes, the Slavic and Eastern European part - but not for the rest of us in the Greek tradition.

Archpriest Gregory Hallam Archpriest Gregory Hallam (talk) 20:16, 24 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Christmas is also celebrated on the 24th of December

Manu protestants — mainly lutherans especially in Scandinavia celebrate Christmas on the 24th of December. Whereas the 25th and 26the are 1st and 2nd Christmas Day.

Wikiwriterdk (talk) 16:56, 25 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, this is already mentioned in the inline note (after the lede's mention of December 25), stating: "Some regions also celebrate primarily on December 24, rather than December 25". McRandy1958 (talk) 22:01, 25 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]