Talk:Indigenous Australians

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Indigenous Australians article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the subject of the article.

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This article is written in Australian English, which has its own spelling conventions (centre, realise, program, labour (but Labor Party)) and some terms may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

This article was nominated for deletion on 5 June 2025. The result of the discussion was snow keep.

This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.

Ethnic groups Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks. Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. WikiProject Ethnic groups open tasks: Here are some open WikiProject Ethnic groups tasks: Meta-tasks: Place the {{Ethnic groups}} template on the talk page of articles within the scope of this project. Resolve the disparity in importance rankings among different ethnic groups Articles about ethnic groups that currently have issues needing resolution: Category:Unassessed Ethnic groups articles Category:Ethnic groups articles needing merge action Category:Ethnic groups articles needing infoboxes Category:Ethnic groups articles needing reassessment Category:Ethnic groups articles needing attention Iyer Peruvian people Start an article: Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Article requests Feel free to edit this list or discuss these tasks. Australia: Demographics / Indigenous peoples Top‑importance Australia portal Indigenous Australians is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page. Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by WikiProject Demographics of Australia (assessed as Top-importance). This article is supported by WikiProject Indigenous peoples of Australia (assessed as Top-importance). Need help improving this article? Ask a Librarian^What's this? at the National Library of Australia. The Wikimedia Australia chapter can be contacted via email to helpwikimedia.org.au for non-editorial assistance. Anthropology: Oral tradition This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anthropology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Anthropology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks. ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale. This article is supported by Oral tradition taskforce.

Guideline for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples terminology Be conscious of the unique, diverse and distinct identities of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples and understand the use of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples is as a collective name. Collective names used to describe Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples: When writing about both Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, use terms such as: First Nations Australians First Australians Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander peoples First Peoples Although "Indigenous Australians" is in common use, and is used to encompass both Aboriginal people and Torres Strait Islander people, many First Nations Australians feel the term diminishes their identity and should be avoided; however, where the word "Indigenous" forms part of an acronym to describe entities, organisations, or government departments the use is acceptable. When used, the words Indigenous, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander, First Nations, First Peoples, and First Australians are capitalised. Note: Never use the collective name "Indigenous and Torres Strait Islander" peoples as it misrepresents the identity of Torres Strait Islander peoples as not being the original inhabitants of islands in the Torres Strait. Self-identifying terms: Be specific where possible by using the name of the group or community with whom the people you are referring to identify. Murri is usually used by Aboriginal people in and from Queensland and north-west New South Wales Goori is usually used by Aboriginal people in and from northern New South Wales coastal regions Koori is usually used by Aboriginal people in and from parts of New South Wales and Victoria This is not an exhaustive list Language that can be discriminatory or offensive and should be avoided: shorthand terms like "Aborigines", "Islanders" abbreviations like "ATSI", "A&TSI", "1st Nations" using terms like "myth", "legend" or "folklore" when referring to the beliefs of First Nations peoples terms like "part-aborigine", "full-blood", "half-caste", "quarter-caste", "octoroon", "mulatto", "hybrid" terms like "tribe", "horde", "band", "clan", "moiety" This is not an exhaustive list Note: It is acceptable to use abbreviations in your communications when they form part of an acronym, a web address or an organisation (e.g. AIATSIS, NAIDOC, www.atsi.org.au). Using an acronym or abbreviation to describe a race of people can be offensive and discriminatory. For further information, please refer to: Australian Government Style Manual[1] Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies[2] University of New South Wales[3] Griffith University[4] Terminology can change over time and, where possible, it is best practice to find out what the preferred term is from the respective Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander group or individual you are referring to. For further guidance, please see the Australian Government Style Guide

Article too long

This is a great article, but as per the "Too long" tag at the top of the article, this article is way to long to be comfortably read. I'm going to start with just cleaning up sentences to make things less verbose and clearer, but not yet removing any content. Ashmoo (talk) 15:00, 3 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for having a go. It's unwieldy, possibly owing to the impossibility of covering everything worth mentioning, and there is quite a bit of overlap with Aboriginal Australians. I think it's been in the too-hard basket for quite a while! I looked at it once with a view to structuring it per WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY but didn't get back to it. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 05:09, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the heads up. I didn't know about Aboriginal Australians. It seems fixing this one is a waste of time. I think we should propose this one for deletion, as the difference is just the name. Ashmoo (talk) 08:16, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No, this article includes all Indigenous Australians - both Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. They are genetically and culturally distinct (and there are further sub-groups within each), and there are also marriages among people from both groups.

This one could perhaps focus on issues, stats, and legislation which affect both groups. But definitely don't delete. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 10:07, 5 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Math discrepancy

The figures of 21 as the median age of Aboriginals but a life expectancy of 74 don't make sense mathematically. 98.50.120.141 (talk) 23:51, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Why not? HiLo48 (talk) 23:55, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"Median" means there's as many below that age as above it. Doug butler (talk) 00:58, 15 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Rationalising article

hello all

I have made a first stab at rationalising this article. I have updated some census data and explained some inconsistencies. I have summarised some information in the lead and moved some detail to the main article. But as others have noted above, the main problem is that the article is bloated, repetitive and full of outdated information and editorial opinions. The other problem is that there is a separate article on Aboriginal Australians which repeats large slabs of this article but also contains different and often contradictory information. Given that 95% of Indigenous people are Aboriginal Australians, it is unsustainable to have two articles. I suggest that we either merge the two articles or have one article on Australian Aborigines and one on Torres Strait islanders.

Happy to discuss Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 03:34, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Population in Info Box

Hello all

I have simplified the population estimates in the info box. The previous version included New Zealand but this is not discussed in the article and smacks of Original Research. The official ABS statistics for Indigenous Australians does not include those residing in New Zealand and there is no basis for using New Zealand census data because they have different benchmarks, time frames and estimation methods. There may well be 1,000 or so Indigenous Australians living in NZ but there will be others living elsewhere in the world too: London and the UK in general might have even more. If we are going to include Indigenous Australians who are permanent residents of other countries we will need a section on this in the article with reliable sources.

Estimates of Indigenous population by state and territory is also best discussed in the article, not in the info box. This is complex information which needs explanation and reliable citations. It is not suited to the info box. See MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE.

Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 22:04, 1 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

New Zealand should be included given the official census counts them. We have Australia and other countries in the infobox for Māori people. Schestos (talk) 03:36, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The info box is supposed to only include key facts from the article. The article does not discuss the New Zealand census count. It does not discuss the differences in methodology, definitions and timing of the two censuses. Nor does it attempt to provide a count of Indigenous Australians living anywhere else in the world. Why should we assume that New Zealand is a bigger population centre for Indigenous Australians than, say, the UK or Papua new Guinea? It is totally irrelevant that the article for Maori includes a count of Maori living in Australia. There are many more Maori living in Australia than Indigenous Australians living in New Zealand so the authors of that article probably thought it significant to add. As I said above, if you want to start a section on Indigenous Australians living outside Australia by all means draft one. But it doesn't belong in the info box. See WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 07:07, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have tried looking for info about Indigenous Australians living outside Australia, though there is little info (likely due to a small population) except from the New Zealand census. You're correct that Māori Australians are a bigger community than Indigenous Australian New Zealanders, but I still think it's worth a mention. Schestos (talk) 07:23, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Then mention it in the population section of the article. But you can't add them up or suggest that this is the total Indigenous population because that would be original research. All we can say is that in 2021 there was an estimated x Indigenous Australians residents in Australia and in 2023 there were Y living in New Zealand. It would then be necessary to note any differences in definitions or counting methods. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 07:38, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Diaspora and state distribution

@Schestos I have deleted you recent deletions for the following reasons: 1) As you can see from the header of the article, the article is already too long. We should be considering ways to summarise information and split information into sub articles, not expand the article with dubious additions. 2) Distribution by State. You added (or restored) a section on distribution by state. But it was only a series of graphs on Queensland using outdated data. There might be a case for a short section on distribution by state (in prose) but it needs to be concise, be based on the latest available data, and be about the population distribution by all states and territories. ideally, something else should be delted or summarised to make room for it. 3) Diaspora. This was repetitive and not really to the point. You stated the same information about past migration of small numbers of Aboriginal people to Indonesia twice. At most, this deserves one short sentence. It is also mixed up with information about a High Court case involving two people. This is hardly a satisfactory summary of Indigenous Australians living outside Australia.

I am happy for you to open a discussion about proposed changes to the article, but the aim should be to improve the article. Given that the article already exceeds recommended size limits, I suggest improvement would involve cutting, summarising and moving excessive detail. Not adding more. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 09:08, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Where should this be included then? Schestos (talk) 09:10, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That sort of information on Indigenous diaspora probably needs to go in a new article on that topic. The key points could then be summarised in a general article like this one. But I think you need a lot more information from a lot more sources. Of course some Indigenous people went permanently or temporarily to Indonesia from the 17th century, but it wasn't all that many and would warrant no more than one sentence in an article of this kind. A few went to Britain in the eighteenth and 19th centuries. In the 20th and 21st century quite a few probably married new Zealanders and moved there. Many probably moved to the UK where the biggest Australian diaspora lives. But the reliably sourced information is too scanty to devote so much space to it in a high level article such as this. And then you have the problem that Indigenous people had no concept of "Australia". For them, a diaspora would be all those who were forced to live off Country in missions and reserves somewhere in Australia. I suggest that the idea of an article/section on diaspora needs a bit more thought and research. For example, are the many Torres Strait Islanders living in mainland Australia part of a diaspora from the Torres Strait Islands? How many live in PNG? It's an interesting topic which looks ripe for a few PhDs to me. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 09:36, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]