Improper use of primary sources

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Wikipedia doesnt care what happened or didnt happen with kickstarter campaigns until third party reliable sources do. Stop attempting to utilize Wikipedia in your revenge campaign. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 02:00, 4 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

BOZ I'm not having much luck finding 3rd party coverage. Can we use the Kickstarter campaigns themselves as the source for each one that hasn't fulfilled backer promises? What is more interesting is that I did find the paperwork for Whitman getting sued in civil court in NY over one of these Kickstarter campaigns: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=lEBiBFZoIZ4ZkV7IOT2L4w==&display=motion But again, it doesn't appear anyone is covering it. So maybe the better question is about if Whitman meets the notability threshold? Sariel Xilo (talk) 21:38, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It would be better to use sources that cover the kickstarter campaigns, but if there are none to be found right now, then I would not worry about it for now. BOZ (talk) 21:42, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Potential sources

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The 2014 edition of Designers & Dragons notes that in Pyramid #25 (May/June 1997), there was an article about Traveller by Timothy Brown called "The Classic Science-Fiction Roleplaying Game Returns" that does mention Whitman. I imagine it talks about him more than just the one quote that was in the book. I will try to track down a copy of this magazine. BOZ (talk) 21:37, 10 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I would also say that any sources about some of his projects on his IMDb page may speak about him as well. BOZ (talk) 21:40, 10 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

shane00mail (4 June 2015). "Interview with Ken Whitman of D20 Entertainment" (Interview). Runkle Plays Games. Retrieved 8 June 2018.{{cite interview}}: CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (link) --Auric talk 22:48, 8 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of BLP violations – first 8 edits

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Per WP:BLP, I am removing 8 statements from the article that are either unsourced or poorly sourced, and which present contentious claims about a living person. These statements have no coverage in reliable, secondary sources.

The specific removals include: 1. [Briefly describe statement 1] 2. [Briefly describe statement 2] 3. [etc… for all 8]

This is not an attempt to whitewash the article — only to ensure that all remaining content meets BLP sourcing standards. KenWhit888 (talk) 17:41, 15 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

BLP/Policy Flags in Current Article
  1. [citation needed] after first sentence
    • "writes and directs films under the name Whit Whitman" — No reliable third-party source given. Needs independent confirmation.
  2. Appelcline & Swan as sole sources for early career
    • These are reliable but mostly secondary historical overviews. They’re fine for facts about published games, but they cannot be the sole source for anything that implies motive, controversy, or personal assessment.
  3. Direct quote from a 1996 Usenet post
    • This is primary source material that presents the subject’s own words in a contentious context. In BLP terms, this is risky because it’s presented without a strong secondary source interpreting its relevance. It could be considered undue weight unless supported by independent reporting.
  4. [when?] tags
    • These indicate ambiguous chronology — BLP policy requires precision if the event could impact perception of the person’s career.
  5. [citation needed] after Kickstarter projects
    • "Created and funded six projects on Kickstarter…" — Needs independent confirmation from a reliable secondary source, not Kickstarter pages (primary).
  6. [non-primary source needed] for Little Monster Entertainment
    • Currently sourced to the company’s own site — not acceptable for claims about scope or impact. Needs press coverage or third-party verification.
  7. [citation needed] for Unnatural release date
    • Currently unsourced; release claims must be backed by an independent industry source (news article, trade publication, streaming listing with date).
  8. Tone/Undue weight
    • Several paragraphs give more detail to controversies or failed projects than to later, verifiable accomplishments. BLP policy says living subjects should be presented with due weight based on coverage, not selective emphasis.
KenWhit888 (talk) 18:57, 15 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

BLP compliance and sourcing update – August 15, 2025

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


I have updated the Ken Whitman article to ensure compliance with [WP:BLP] and [WP:RS].

The previous version contained several statements that were:

Unsourced or cited only to blogs, forums, or other self-published/non-reliable sources Contentious in nature, involving negative claims about a living person Not supported by independent, secondary coverage These have been removed or replaced with well-sourced, verifiable information from reliable publications such as Designers & Dragons, The Complete Guide to Role-Playing Games, and coverage from The News-Enterprise, Shadis, and InQuest. The current version: Focuses on verifiable career milestones, works, and publications Avoids gossip, speculation, and unsourced allegations Preserves neutrality and encyclopedic tone If editors believe any removed material can be restored with high-quality, independent sourcing, I encourage discussion here first before re-adding to the article. KenWhit888 (talk) 18:59, 15 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

BLP cleanup and neutral rewrite request (COI disclosed)

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BOZ

Per WP:BLP / WP:BLPSTYLE / WP:BLPSOURCES / WP:BLPREMOVE, I’m requesting specific fixes to the Career section to remove user-generated/poorly sourced and contentious material, replace vague timing with sourced dates, and keep only independent, reliable sources. I have a conflict of interest as the subject, so I won’t edit directly.

 Note: I believe this is now being handled at Talk:Ken_Whitman#BLP_cleanup_and_neutral_rewrite_request_(COI_disclosed)_3 so I am setting it to answered to remove from backlog. Xan747 (talk) 18:24, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Requested changes

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


1) Remove the Usenet/forum quotation and its setup. Rationale: WP:BLP and WP:BLPSOURCES prohibit user-generated/forum material for BLPs; contentious/pejorative quotes must be removed immediately (WP:BLPREMOVE). Replace with: “Appelcline reports that disagreements over expenditures led to Whitman’s departure from Imperium Games.” [1]

2) Fix two `[when?]` tags using Appelcline: – “From 1998 to 2001, Whitman ran Dynasties Productions, focusing on *Games Unplugged*.” [1] – “He later managed Elmore Productions, the art company of Larry Elmore.” [1]

3) Strengthen sourcing for the Archangel sentence by appending [1] to the publication list; keep *InQuest* for distribution and *Shadis* for the review.

4) Remove the Kickstarter paragraph and the “six projects” sentence (no independent RS). Rationale: WP:BLP, WP:PRIMARY, WP:ONUS.

5) Remove the “Since 2021… CEO of Little Monster Entertainment” sentence (currently supported only by a company About page). Rationale: WP:BLPSPS / WP:PRIMARY.

6) Remove the *Unnatural* release-date sentence marked [citation needed]. Rationale: WP:BLPREMOVE.

7) Minor copyedits for tense/tone; ensure each concrete claim is followed immediately by a reliable citation (WP:V, WP:BLPSTYLE).

References

  1. ^ a b c d Cite error: The named reference Appelcline was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed replacement text: Career (neutral, RS-only)

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Whitman founded Whit Productions to publish the post-apocalyptic role-playing game Mutazoids (1989), which reviewer Rick Swan described as “an attractively chaotic RPG environment.”[1] He later started Whit Publications, which released two licensed games: Ralph Bakshi’s Wizards (1992) and WWF Basic Adventure Game (1993).[2]

In 1994, Whitman became the Gen Con convention coordinator for TSR; contemporaneous coverage noted plans to expand TSR’s convention presence in 1995, and he worked at TSR from 1994 to 1995.[3][2] Dragon also reported that he worked on the Highlander role-playing game from Thunder Castle Games.[3]

Whitman co-founded Imperium Games in early 1996 to publish Traveller releases. He served as president and contributed to the fourth edition, including psionics rules.[2] Appelcline reports that disagreements over expenditures led to his departure from Imperium Games.[2]

From 1997 to 1998, Whitman ran Archangel Entertainment, which published Groo: The Game as well as Zero and Dark Conspiracy; trade coverage discussed U.S. distribution via Chessex, and a Shadis review was positive.[2][4][5]

From 1998 to 2001, he ran Dynasties Productions, focusing on the magazine Games Unplugged; he later managed Elmore Productions, the art company of Larry Elmore, and helped produce The Complete Elmore Art Book.[2][6]

Whitman subsequently created printing companies Rapid POD (2005–2007) and Sidekick Printing (2010).[2] Local newspaper coverage in 2011–2012 documented production of the web series Brothers Barbarian.[7][8][9]

    • Policy basis:** WP:BLP, WP:BLPSTYLE, WP:BLPSOURCES, WP:BLPREMOVE, WP:PRIMARY, WP:ONUS.

Thank you for reviewing and implementing as appropriate.

  1. ^ Cite error: The named reference Swan was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  2. ^ a b c d e f g Cite error: The named reference Appelcline was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  3. ^ a b Cite error: The named reference Dragon1995 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  4. ^ "Game Companies Going Exclusive". InQuest. No. 39. July 1998. p. 20.
  5. ^ Figueroa, Marcelo A. (September 1997). "Groo: The Card Game". Shadis. Vol. 6, no. 40. p. 78.
  6. ^ Owsley, Becca (June 13, 2014). "Brandenburg film company produces geek culture projects". The News-Enterprise. pp. 1–2. {{cite news}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); |archive-date= requires |archive-url= (help)CS1 maint: url-status (link)
  7. ^ Cite error: The named reference NewsEnt2011 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  8. ^ "'Brothers Barbarian': Online comedy series filming this weekend in Brandenburg features Goshen man". The Oldham Era. September 27, 2012. {{cite news}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); |archive-date= requires |archive-url= (help)CS1 maint: url-status (link)
  9. ^ Downs, Meaghan (August 10, 2011). "Local couple stars in webisode series". The Anderson News. pp. 1–2. {{cite news}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); |archive-date= requires |archive-url= (help)CS1 maint: url-status (link)

WhitWhitman (talk) 19:08, 16 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

BLP cleanup and neutral rewrite request (COI disclosed)

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 In progress: An editor is implementing the requested edit.

  • What I think should be changed:
 1) Remove the user-generated Usenet/forum quotation and its setup; replace with a neutral sentence attributed to Appelcline:
    : Appelcline reports that disagreements over expenditures led to Whitman’s departure from Imperium Games.[1]
 2) Fix the two `[when?]` tags by using dates already in Appelcline:
    : From 1998 to 2001, Whitman ran Dynasties Productions, focusing on Games Unplugged.[1]
    : He later managed Elmore Productions, the art company of Larry Elmore.[1]
 3) Strengthen sourcing for the Archangel publication list by appending [1]; keep InQuest for distribution and Shadis for the review.
 4) Remove the Kickstarter paragraph and the “six projects” sentence (no independent sourcing).
 5) Remove the “Since 2021… CEO of Little Monster Entertainment” sentence (company “About” page only).
 6) Remove the Unnatural release-date sentence marked [citation needed].
 7) Replace the current Career section with the RS-only draft below (and apply minor tense/tone copyedits so each concrete claim is immediately followed by a citation).

8) Add a neutral, RS-backed line noting the 2023 re-release of Groo: The Game: “In 2023, Independent coverage credited Whitman as the original designer of Groo: The Game and that Steve Jackson Games would release a new edition of Groo: The Game.”[2]


== Career == Whitman founded Whit Productions in 1989 to publish the post-apocalyptic role-playing game ''Mutazoids''.<ref name="DesignersDragons" /> [[Rick Swan]] described ''Mutazoids'' in ''The Complete Guide to Role-Playing Games'' as "an attractively chaotic RPG environment."<ref name="Swan" /> Whitman later founded Whit Publications, which released two licensed games: ''Ralph Bakshi's Wizards'' (1992) by [[Edward Bolme]] and ''WWF Basic Adventure Game'' (1993) by David Clark.<ref name="DesignersDragons" /> In 1994, Whitman became Convention Coordinator for [[TSR (company)|TSR]].<ref name="DesignersDragons" /> According to ''Dragon'' magazine, TSR expanded its convention appearances during this period.<ref name="Dragon215" /> Whitman co-founded [[Imperium Games]] with [[Marc Miller (game designer)|Marc Miller]] in 1996 to publish ''[[Traveller (role-playing game)|Traveller]]'' releases, serving as company president and contributing to the fourth edition, including psionics rules.<ref name="DesignersDragons" /> According to Appelcline, he left during a period of financial disputes between Imperium and its backer, Sweetpea Entertainment.<ref name="DesignersDragons" /> From 1997 to 1998, Whitman was president of [[Archangel Entertainment]], which published ''[[Groo: The Game]]'', ''[[Zero (role-playing game)|Zero]]'', and ''[[Dark Conspiracy]]''.<ref name="DesignersDragons" /> Reviewer Marcelo Figueroa called ''Groo: The Card Game'' "one of the coolest card games I've ever played."<ref name="Shadis1997" /> From 1998 to 2001, he ran Dynasties Productions, focusing on the magazine ''[[Games Unplugged]]''; he later managed Elmore Productions, the art company of Larry Elmore, and helped produce ''The Complete Elmore Art Book''.<ref name="DesignersDragons" /><ref name="NewsEnt2014" /> Whitman subsequently founded the printing companies Rapid POD (2005–2007) and Sidekick Printing (2010).<ref name="DesignersDragons" /> Local newspaper coverage in 2011–2012 documented production of the web series ''Brothers Barbarian''.<ref name="NewsEnt2011" /><ref name="Oldham2012" /><ref name="Anderson2011" /> == Film and web == Coverage has noted Whitman’s work on independent features, including: * ''Unnatural'' (2024), a horror–western.<ref name="RueMorgue" />


  • Why it should be changed:
 * The forum/Usenet quotation is user-generated and pejorative; contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately (WP:BLP, WP:BLPREMOVE; also WP:BLPSOURCES / USERGENERATED).
 * Kickstarter counts, the LME CEO claim (primary “About” page), and the unsourced release date fail WP:V, WP:PRIMARY, and WP:ONUS; they should be removed unless supported by independent, reliable sources.
 * Replacing vague timing with dated citations and keeping only independent sources aligns with WP:BLPSTYLE and ensures neutrality.


  • References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):
  1. ^ a b c d Appelcline, Shannon (2014). Designers & Dragons: The '90s. Evil Hat Productions. pp. 262–265, 270, 343. ISBN 978-1-61317-084-7.
  2. ^ "Steve Jackson Games Will Release New Edition of Groo: The Game". ICv2. Retrieved 2025-08-16.

Cite error: A list-defined reference named "Swan" is not used in the content (see the help page).
Cite error: A list-defined reference named "Dragon215" is not used in the content (see the help page).
Cite error: A list-defined reference named "Shadis1997" is not used in the content (see the help page).
Cite error: A list-defined reference named "NewsEnt2014" is not used in the content (see the help page).
Cite error: A list-defined reference named "NewsEnt2011" is not used in the content (see the help page).
Cite error: A list-defined reference named "Oldham2012" is not used in the content (see the help page).
Cite error: A list-defined reference named "Anderson2011" is not used in the content (see the help page).
Cite error: A list-defined reference named "RueMorgue" is not used in the content (see the help page).

WhitWhitman (talk) 19:36, 16 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@WhitWhitman: due to the number of changes proposed, it might be more efficient for you to copy the current state of the article to your own WP:USERSPACE, and then implement each of the changes you propose above on that page. Insofar as possible, implement each change in one edit, with the edit summary referencing the numbered list above. Then ping me and I will review within 24 hours, or let you know if I will need more time. Once we've discussed your changes and agreed they are suitable, I will implement them in the main article again by the numbers. There will of course be some other odds and ends to deal with as we go. If you have any questions or other suggestions, please let me know. Xan747 (talk) 17:37, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I handled item (1) by removing the details about Usenet conversation with fans as unencyclopedic. Xan747 (talk) 17:54, 30 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]