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Talk:Lock (water navigation)

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When/where invented

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Canal_of_the_Pharaohs says "Ptolemy II was the first to solve the problem of keeping the Nile free of salt water when his engineers invented the water lock around 274/273 BC" (not sure what type) but can't see any mention here. - Rod57 (talk) 23:19, 12 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Templates

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I have added 2 templates to the article {{refimprove}} and {{tooshort}}. The latter was placed here on the talk page when it should have been on the article page, so I have removed it from here. The former has been added because for an article the size that it is, there are really very few references, and that gives a real feel of original research. It may be that this is all authoritative stuff, but it doesn't sound like that as there are insufficient references to support it. CalzGuy (talk) 06:49, 24 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Double Gates.

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The locks on the Panama canal, and the big new locks in Antwerp, have two sets of gates, with a gap of about 20m. between them. Why ?

On the Kennet and Avon canal, on the upstream side of Reading, there is a lock with a rise of only about 1 foot. why ?

78.150.128.87 (talk) 00:29, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

On the K&A you are referring to County Lock which IIRC is mainly used for level control rather than hill climbing. For Panama see Panama Canal locks#The gates. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 08:33, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
County Lock is on a river section, with appreciable flow. It's alongside a weir. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:10, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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Reversion 25/1/18

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I've reverted the last two changes for a number of reasons. The changes were well intentioned, but introduced a number of linguistic and factual errors.

  • The essence of a lock is navigation. Otherwise a staunch, gate or sluice would suffice.
  • Please check up on the use of an apostrophe. Plurals do not take one, only genitives.
  • Control locks or stop locks are still navigation locks, otherwise they would be sluices etc.
  • What are "Waaier" and "Spui" locks? It's not an English language term I've ever seen, and there is limited explanation and no wikilink. Are they instances of sluices?
  • Please also watch the use of headings. The highest level heading that should be used on a mainspace or talk page is level 2.

Having been rather negative so far, I will agree with you that control lock should be merged into this article and will set about doing so forthwith. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 13:40, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposal

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I propose that Control lock be merged into Lock (water navigation). The examples on Control lock can, if citations are found, be adequately merged into Lock. A redirect will ensure the edit history is preserved. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 14:09, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Some restructuring seems to be necessary. Maybe renaming the page to pound lock? and linking to the pages of the other types such as the control lock? Right now the other pages are quite hard to find and it is like the pound lock would be the only lock around.

Or even better, maybe making a page for lock that refers to the pound lock page (this page) and the other lock type pages.

I wanted to write about a lock design meant solely for the purpose to flood certain regions (these types of locks were for example used in the setting of the Hollandic Water Line) and the title of this, otherwise very well written, article got me confused.

--Danielvandermaas (talk) 18:56, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Have you tried floodgate, Flood barrier, Tidal barrage or sluice? As the Hollandic Water Line article you referred to says: "Sluices were constructed in dikes", it does not call them locks. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:14, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that the design of door I want to describe is used for both control locks and sluices.

Many locks are used for both the raising/lowering of boats as well as controlling water levels. It does not seem right to split control lock and pound lock into two pages. The remark that a lock's main or partial function can be controlling water levels (as opposed to raising boats) should probably be stated in the introduction on the current lock page. --Danielvandermaas (talk) 08:26, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Closing, given that there seems to be there remains opposition after more than a year; no clear consensus other than, perhaps, for improve. Klbrain (talk) 06:15, 17 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Van gates

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I have edited the section on van gates as the previous description didn't make sense. GBM (talk) 09:56, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Basic construction and operation

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I suggest that the diagram in this section omits the following steps and that the text in this section doesn’t sufficiently emphasise them:

For a boat travelling uphill, if the lock isn’t already empty, the lock will first need to be emptied
For a boat traveling downhill, if the lock isn’t already full, the lock will first need to be filled.

Given that these steps will be required about half the time a lock is traversed, I think inclusion/greater emphasis is required.

Thoughts? Zin92 (talk) 20:52, 13 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Depth of locks

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I question the statement "The deepest "as-built" locks in England are considered to be Etruria Top Lock on the Trent and Mersey Canal and Somerton Deep Lock on the Oxford Canal: both have a rise of about 14 ft (4.3 m)".

I think this needs reliable source because this unreliable source does not support it:

  • "Deepest Canal Locks in England and Wales, UK". Pennine Waterways. Retrieved 12 March 2019.

PBS (talk) 12:45, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The following unreliaable source puts the Somerton Deep Lock at 12 feet which is deep for the Oxford canal but the canals next to the river stour have a number of locks with a similar depth (see previous unreliable reference).

PBS (talk) 13:13, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Nicholson Guide volume 1 quotes 12 feet as the depth of Somerton Deep Lock, as does Paget-Tomlinson. I cannot find a sensible ref for the depth of Etruria top lock, so I propose removing the mention of "as-built" locks. Bob1960evens (talk) 13:19, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Uncited material in need of citations

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I am moving the following uncited material here until it can be properly supported with inline citations of reliable, secondary sources, per WP:V, WP:CS, WP:IRS, WP:PSTS, WP:BLP, WP:NOR, et al. This diff shows where it was in the article. Nightscream (talk) 14:40, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Under the heading "Use of Water" there was about a page of material. With this 4/26/22 change, and to this day, 4/10/24, only two sentences remain. Many years ago, there had been an equation in the removed material. On March 13, 2016, I improved the equation, generalizing it. I won't both making such an effort again. 24.214.166.246 (talk) 14:36, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dester13

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Fork99 we need to discuss. I was trying to put Canal Lock on the article but you then revert it. Canal Lock is an alternate term for “Lock (water navigation)” and it’s not a bad problem with no grammar errors. As i speak i have it saw Canal Lock article before it was deleted by admin in Wikipedia. So we here to add that sure. Reply? Dester13 (talk) 22:13, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Dester13: As I said in my edit summary, the sentence you edited already discussed that this is in relation to canals. There’s no need to make the sentence a tautology. Also, there’s been similar discussions on other articles you’ve edited. Fork99 (talk) 22:24, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Okay then Fork99. But i swear that i just seen Canal Lock article in the past years before being deleted by admin, so it just only have Lock (water navigation) article then I may have to add it there. I agree. Dester13 (talk) 23:15, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don’t understand exactly what you mean, but if you mean that there were articles at the present redirects Canal lock or Canal Lock, there is no need for duplicate articles on Wikipedia, see the pages at Wikipedia:MERGEREASON and Wikipedia:Redirect. Those redirects were created at least a decade or more ago. Fork99 (talk) 00:23, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
While this not i want to say Fork99. I just want to put Canal Lock in the Lock (water navigation) article because i seen “Canal Lock” page in the past years before being removed by admin, and it’s another term for that. There is no reason for grammar errors and wording unclears sure. Reply to me if it right? I swear.

Ending Message

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We wish that i want to put Canal Lock term at this article after it deleted by admin in past years. Dester13 (talk) 01:11, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I’m sorry, what? Firstly, correct if I’m wrong, but are you using a translator program from your presumably native language to English to edit on the English Wikipedia? If so, there are lots of Wikipedias in different languages (see this link: List of Wikipedias). Secondly, a lock (water transport) can also refer to a river lock, not just a canal lock. This is explained in this article’s lead. Fork99 (talk) 01:37, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
While okay than. I will add River Lock in this article instead of Canal Lock Fork99. I sorry sure. Dester13 (talk) 14:17, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No. Specific typing does not create a new term. A 'Ball' is not also known as a 'Red Ball'. MrOllie (talk) 14:23, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Dude MrOllie. I’m agree with Fork99. The sentence “Secondly, a lock (water transport) (diverted into water navigation) can also refer to a river lock” tells me to add River Lock refer in this article instead of Canal Lock. I’m right sure so i decide to put River Lock on it. Dester13 (talk) 16:28, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You are misreading Fork99's comment. MrOllie (talk) 16:40, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Dester13: As I said in a different discussion at Talk:Apostrophe#Dester13, please STOP using Google Translate. If you genuinely believe that “canal lock” is the same as a “lock”, or for that matter, ANY word on ANY article, please use the article’s talk page (such as this one) to ask a native speaker of English. For example: “I’m not a native speaker of English, but does the word ‘lock’ in the article need the clarification that it’s also a ‘canal lock’? If so, can someone add this to the article for me please?”
We do not need to have this same conversation over multiple articles more than once (see Talk:Apostrophe#Dester13, Talk:Volcanic plateau#Dester13, Talk:Cities: Skylines#Dester13, Talk:Railway track#Dester13).
As I said in other discussions, machine translation of languages is very difficult. Without further context, a computer would not understand that an English ‘ball’ could refer to either ‘a formal dance party’ OR ‘a usually round-shaped object that is usually used in various sports’. I’m sure that your native language (like any language, including English) has similar homonyms, homophones and linguistic aspects that a native English speaker would find difficult to learn and understand. Fork99 (talk) 19:51, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well well, another user has taken Dester to ANI and gotten Dester and their other accounts all blocked for sockpuppetry, among other things. Hopefully that’s the last of that. Fork99 (talk) 10:03, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]