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does anyone actually use this word other than Charles Marohn and Not Just Bikes?

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there are 30 mentions of Marohn in an article that should be about the concept itself. does anyone else actually talk about this? 216.80.40.254 (talk) 22:50, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, a person who added some "stroad related" material here. I would be very much pleased if there was a more general theory / set of literature that covers this topic, since I observed this effect in everyday life andwanted some theory to understand it, and felt the stroad literature which others suggested on geography forums was a bit lacking though addressed the effect I had observed. One thing I remember hearing in a podcast I listened to on the topic is that dutch planners seem to understand this problem and implement policy to fix it - so there might be some theory there. Perhaps this cite that I just found while searching for stroad within academic literature
Asadi, M., M. B. Ulak, K. T. Geurs, W. Weijermars, and P. Schepers. A Comprehensive Analysis of36 the Relationships between the Built Environment and Traffic Safety in the Dutch Urban Areas.37 Accident Analysis & Prevention, Vol. 172, 2022, p. 106683
The citing document says "This type of facilities that is notoriously ubiquitous in the USA (often called “stroad”) is discouraged by the safe system principles)"
As to whether the term is being used, on that most reliable of sources, youtube video essays, it gets a bit of use. Searching scholarly and "policy" literature with this search the term seems to be getting used in other literature, but none of the examples I could find are that well cited (though they are quite new). Talpedia 23:19, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@216.80.40.254 you do realise that the article has a References and Bibliography section, right? Like all articles should, and most articles do. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 00:57, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I realize that I am responding to an experienced Wikipedia article, but I find your response very puzzling. There are a lot of sources about the notion "stroad" which is a recent term coined by people who don't like the concept, and my attempts to point this out very mildly got reverted. Any article that does not cite studies about the benefits of many famous "stroads" like El Camino Real, Santa Monica Blvd, etc (I gave examples in the talk page) because they are not about "stroads" will always be biased. Ashishgoel.1973 (talk) 09:39, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry I meant an experience Wikipedia "editor", not "article". Ashishgoel.1973 (talk) 09:40, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The word stroad was coined back in 2011, 13 years ago. That's more than half the age of Wikipedia itself. There are plenty of Wikipedia articles about words that are far more recent than that. It doesn't matter how old or young a word it; what matters is whether it passes WP:GNG, and it does. NLeeuw (talk) 21:23, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I know this is anectodal, but my daughter had a lesson on stroads in her 2nd grade class. My wife is a city planner and knows about the concept, but was shocked to hear it from her daughter coming home from school. I think it's use is spreading, though it's a new term for sure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.59.157.174 (talk) 20:01, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"Stroad" used in a June 2023 report by United States Department of Transportation — Federal Highway Administration, now cited in the article:
https://international.fhwa.dot.gov/programs/mrp/docs/FHWA-PL-23-006.pdf PK-WIKI (talk) 15:44, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed that this is a really strange article. An editor should look at it to see if it falls within wikipedia bias guidelines. Since the term "stroad" is recent, and is only used by people criticizing this concept, there is very little literature explicitly in its favor. Hence, the right test for bias fo this article is not whether it represents scholarly knowledge about "stroads" in a balanced way, but whether it represents the underlying concept in a balanced way. Under this test, it is easy to find articles about "stroads" that celebrate their history as well as imagine a sustainable future where they play a vital role. E.g. https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/history-and-significance-of-el-camino-real-de-tierra-adentro.htm and https://www.greenbelt.org/blog/el-camino-real-an-opportunity-for-transit-oriented-development/ about El Camino Real, a main artery of the Bay Area. Ashishgoel.1973 (talk) 23:00, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Adding Globalize tag

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Hello. I'm adding the Globalize tag to this article as most of its information is about North America and Europe. I hope the template could be removed from this article when more information regarding the rest of the world is added into it. Jothefiredragon (talk) 05:38, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality

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To preface, I am against stroads, I recognize the objective drawbacks of them and I agree with almost everything in the article. That said, that's not the point of Wikipedia. I feel like everything written here is written with a massive anti-stroad and pro-urbanism sentiment without providing a counterpoint, and that's not the way an article should be written. I'm adding a disputed neutrality tag because I feel like this could really be improved upon. There's criticism of anti-stroad arguments that deserve article space for the sake of fairness. Stroads are literally all over North America, this article shouldn't be a political piece for a relatively niche political movement. DepressedHertaFan (talk) 18:44, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Stroads article is a WP:SUBPOV, a "subject which itself represents a point of view". The article could be titled something like Criticism of auto-centric business boulevards, but "Stroad" is the WP:COMMONNAME.
If there was a positive/neutral term for stroads, I might agree that this should all be folded into a neutral article that defined the subject and presented WP:NPOV pros and cons. But that term/article doesn't seem to exist. The neutral discussion is happening in articles like Car dependency, Suburbanization, Urban sprawl, etc. The article Stroad is an inherently opinionated/non-neutral criticism article, as covered by reliable sources. If significant coverage of "pro-stroad" viewpoints does exist it should be added to this article, per WP:POVFORK: Any subarticle that deals with opinions about the subject of parent article must include suitably-weighted positive and negative opinions, and/or rebuttals, if available, and the original article should contain a neutral summary of the split article. PK-WIKI (talk) 19:57, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
PK-WIKI explains it very well. This is all within our policies and guidelines. If anyone can cite WP:RS which make pro-stroad arguments, or criticism of anti-stroad arguments, those can be added to the article in the relevant subsections.
The issue of stroads, and street design in the United States and Canada more broadly, isn't "political" in the sense of partisan. Conservatives and liberals alike have reasons of their own for seeking to change certain situations; liberals for environmental reasons, conservatives for fiscal responsibility reasons, both for safety reasons, and so on. NLeeuw (talk) 21:32, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Didn't look at it from that perspective. You're right, I'll remove the neutrality template. I do still think it's important for some counter opinions to do be in the article, but I won't be the one to do it considering how bias I am in the subject. Thank you and @Nederlandse Leeuw for your input. DepressedHertaFan (talk) 01:18, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@DepressedHertaFan You're welcome! And don't worry, we've all got our biases. The challenge is to try and minimise the influence our biases have on our editing, and take others' perspectives into account.
Speaking of which, I see that you like to write about racing cars? Well, it has been demonstrated that stroads are poorly designed to have cars drive at high speeds, because they are so frequently jammed with traffic that the average speed is far below the speed limit. That has to do with the large number of entries/exits, and every vehicle that wants to enter or leave the stroad slows down the speed at which the rest can drive. If you like driving cars at high speeds, safely, without constantly having to slow down because of other vehicles in front of you, you'd probably prefer highways (motorways, stroomwegen) or connector roads (gebiedsontsluitingswegen) over stroads as well.
I'm always open to be proven wrong and be corrected. But so far, I haven't really seen any arguments defending stroads as such. Only statements that do not seem to understand the full complexity of the issue (especially induced demand), or people who fear they will lose their "freedom" to drive anywhere anywhen anyhow, even though stroads appear to be the least attractive option to do so for any fan of driving. NLeeuw (talk) 02:03, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you know any "stroads are good actually," arguments, feel free to add them. Otherwise this tag is kind of pointless. Isaac Rabinovitch (talk) 14:56, 20 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
To preface, I am against stroads, I recognize the objective drawbacks of them and I agree with almost everything in the article. That said, that's not the point of Wikipedia. I feel like everything written here is written with a massive anti-stroad and pro-urbanism sentiment without providing a counterpoint, and that's not the way an article should be written. I'm adding a disputed neutrality tag because I feel like this could really be improved upon. There's criticism of anti-stroad arguments that deserve article space for the sake of fairness. Stroads are literally all over North America, this article shouldn't be a political piece for a relatively niche political movement.
My opinion on this message:
  1. I agree with @Isaac Rabinovitch's statement: If you know any "stroads are good actually," arguments, feel free to add them. Otherwise this tag is kind of pointless.
  2. this article shouldn't be a political piece for a relatively niche political movement. I personally don't think that stroad themselves are as political as the anti SUV sentiments.
  3. Stroads are literally all over North America Statements like this is exactly why I put {{Globalize}} a long time ago. The association of North America (okay, maybe Australia and New Zealand as well) with stroads by notable urbanists (especially Not Just Bikes and Adam Something) makes me rather sick. Stroad, to me, is a worldwide problem. Why they gotta make it sounded like something North America exclusive?
I'd like to ping @paul_012, a fellow Thai Wikimedia contributor with much more experience than me, to get some opinion (should they have any). 🐲Jothefiredragon🔥talk🧨contributions✨log🐉 18:21, 27 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Europe

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Stroad, to me, is a worldwide problem. I agree.
Why they gotta make it sounded like something North America exclusive? It isn't, but it is the context with which the pioneers of this concept (Marohn, Not Just Bikes, Adam Something and other urbanists) are familiar with. It is becoming more and more common to identify stroads as such in other continents as well, including Europe (which is sometimes naively thought of as a stroad-free continent). The problem with any neologism coined as recently as 2011 is applying it all over the world when WP:RS may not yet have done so. For example, I've just translated and expanded the article Small Ring Road, Kyiv. I'm pretty sure that certain sections of it (particularly those called "prospekts", which are common across Eastern Europe) would meet the commonly-used definitions of a 'stroad' (roughly, a high-speed, unlimited-access road with at least 3 or 4 lanes in both directions, which is very unsafe, induces demand, has high-maintenance costs, stimulates urban sprawl and car dependency etc.). But I haven't been able to find any RS yet calling any of them a stroad. And to do so without RS risks WP:OR/WP:SYNTH.
We cannot run faster than the sources; we must follow the sources. Thus, it may be futile to put Template:Globalize on any article describing a concept that is almost certainly globally applicable, but which RS have just not yet applied somewhat evenly across the globe. Wikipedia is always a work in progress; in cases like these, we should just be patient for those RS to appear (which I think they almost certainly will).
For my part, I have done what I could so far to give examples of stroads outside North America as well. There is a reason why the Stroad#Champs-Élysées comparison section takes up so much space already, on the one hand, to show that Europe is not stroad-free, but also to illustrate how stroads can be improved and it is not an unfixable problem that "North America" is simply permanently condemned to. Every now and then, I try and find new RS about stroads, preferably outside North America exactly because the phenomenon exists elsewhere as well. I'm happy to continue doing my part to 'globalize' this article, but sometimes we just need to give RS more time to be written. Good day, NLeeuw (talk) 18:46, 27 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Former Soviet Prospekts

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As I hoped, I found a journal describing the Leningradsky Avenue (Leningradsky Prospekt) as a stroad.
  • Blinkin, Mikhail; Kulakova, Anastasia. "Скоростные ограничения на дорогах и в городах мира уровень, контроль, санкции" [Speed limits on roads and in cities around the world: level, control, sanctions.]. ITS Journal (in Russian). Retrieved 28 July 2025.
Mikhail and Anastasia explain:
Первый тип этих гибридов — «Stroad» является обычно результатом переделки исторически сложившейся городской улицы в некое подобие городского фривея; характерный пример — Ленинградский проспект в Москве. Это давно уже не улица (переход с одной её стороны на другую стал трудноразрешимой задачей), но и вовсе не городской фривей: «большая Ленинградка» начинается одним bottleneck (у Тверской заставы) и кончается другим (в Химках).
[Autotranslated with DeepL] The first type of these hybrids - the Stroad - is usually the result of remodelling a historically established urban street into a kind of urban freeway; a typical example is the Leningradsky Prospekt in Moscow. It is no longer a street (the transition from one side to the other has become an intractable task), but it is not an urban freeway at all: the ‘Big Leningradka’ starts with one bottleneck (near Tverskaya Zastava) and ends with another (in Khimki).
Meanwhile, we might not be able to use this as a source, because it is a column, but the author Kateryna in Ukrayinska Pravda identifies a few stroads in Kyiv and Dnipro:
[Autotranslated with DeepL] On the multi-lane streets of large Ukrainian cities, it is difficult to imagine traffic with a speed limit of 50 km/h. The Soviet desire for gigantomania and the focus on urban development according to the American scenario have done their job. Now, instead of streets, we see multi-lane hybrids called " stroad ". This is a concept that comes from the words "street" and "road". That is, a city street that was built as a country road. On such "monsters" people drive fast, park in a tree-like pattern and draw unregulated pedestrian crossings across 6 lanes. That is, they combine incompatible functions of the road network, which makes the streets dangerous and incomprehensible for all road users. [bold in original]
These street photos are illustrations of what is categorically wrong with the infrastructure in Ukrainian cities. (her words, not mine)
Examples cited:
  • Вулиця Героїв Дніпра, Оболонь, Київ – приклад вулиці-дороги (Stroad) [Heroes of the Dnipro Street, Obolon, Kyiv – an example of a street-road (Stroad)]
  • Проспект Героїв, м. Дніпро, ще один приклад вулиці-дороги (Stroad) [Heroes Avenue, Dnipro, another example of a street-road (Stroad)]
  • Проспект Бажана в Києві – приклад, як не треба робити транзитні магістралі [Bazhana Avenue in Kyiv is an example of how transit highways should not be built]
  • Проспект Степана Бандери, Київ, дозволений швидкісний ліміт – 80 км/год [Stepana Bandera Avenue, Kyiv, permitted speed limit – 80 km/h] Moreover, there is no separate lane for regular transport on the street. Moreover, service facilities adjoin the main road. It should be noted that pedestrian and bicycle crossings through these adjoins are unregulated.
  • Набережна Перемоги, Дніпро, дозволений швидкісний ліміт – 70 км/год [Victory Embankment, Dnipro, permitted speed limit – 70 km/h] The situation in Dnipro is similar. A multi-lane street with overpasses (albeit regulated), lots of parking spaces on the main road and adjacencies to service facilities. And don't forget about the "unpenalized +20 km/h", with which 70 or 80 kilometers per hour in reality turn into 90-100 km/h. And here's the result: the roads are dangerous for all road users.
While I'm at it, I suppose the Leninsky Avenue, Moscow (Leninsky Prospekt) and many of the other Leninsky Avenues built during the Soviet Union are still stroads today as well. The above are just two examples of sources analysing stroads in cities in Russia and Ukraine today, and they use the English word 'stroad', in Latin script, to do so. These are unmistakably connected to the concept that originated with Marohn in North America in 2011. Whether we can cite them is a separate question. NLeeuw (talk) 06:08, 28 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Africa

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PS: This one looks promising as an RS for stroads in Africa.
Unfortunaly I can't access the full article, but the highlights mention inter alia:
  • Upgraded roads, despite often being ‘stroads’, are generally perceived as enablers to walking.
  • A transition from basic roads and stroads to more inclusive road designs is crucial for improving walking in African cities.
This suggests that the study observes the existence of stroads throughout Sub-Saharan Africa, that they may or may not always be a problem (depending on circumstances), and that if 'upgraded' or 'made more inclusive', stroads might be okay or even 'crucial' for walkability in cities across Africa. If anyone has access to the full article, that would be awesome. NLeeuw (talk) 19:14, 27 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Indonesia

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And this a paper explaining what stroads are in Indonesian (the 10th language in the world by number of speakers), citing the Jalan Dr. Ir. H. Soekarno in Surabaya (coordinates -7.298093307735831, 112.78202057978913) as an example of a street [jalan] that might become a stroad because it also has several characteristics of a road [raya]:
Hal ini membuat perencanaan Jalan Dr. Ir. H. Soekarno untuk lebih diperhitungkan kedepannya, guna menghindari Jalan Dr. Ir. H. Soekarno menjadi stroad. Stroad atau street road adalah adalah kondisi hybrid dimana suatu ruas berfungsi sebagai setengah jalan/street, yakni sebuah lingkungan kompleks dimana kehidupan perkotaan, seperti bisnis, permukiman, dan ekonomi terjadi, diisi dengan pejalan kaki, mobil, dan bangunan dekat dengan trotoar untuk aksesibilitas yang mudah, disertai banyaknya akses masuk persil dari dan ke jalan, dan dengan ruang untuk parkir dan kendaraan jasa pengiriman; dan setengah jalan raya/road, dimana jalan raya adalah sebuah koneksi antara dua tempat yang berkecepatan tinggi dengan lajur yang lebar, akses keluar masuk yang terbatas, serta biasanya ruasnya hanya lurus atau memiliki tikungan ringan. Stroad sangat mahal untuk dibangun dan tidak produktif secara finansial, serta berbahaya bagi penggunanya.
[Autotranslated by DeepL]: This makes the planning of Dr. Ir. H. Soekarno Street more important in the future, in order to avoid Dr. Ir. H. Soekarno Street from becoming a stroad. A stroad or street road is a hybrid condition where a section functions as half a jalan/street, i.e., a complex environment where urban life, such as business, residential areas, and economic activities take place, filled with pedestrians, vehicles, and buildings close to the sidewalk for easy accessibility, accompanied by numerous access points from and to the road, and with space for parking and delivery vehicles; and half a raya/road, where a highway is a high-speed connection between two locations with wide lanes, limited access points, and typically straight sections or gentle curves. Stroads are very expensive to build, financially unproductive, and dangerous for users.
It's a brief passage, but it might represent the first time an RS in this language uses and applies the term stroad in the definition that conforms with this Wikipedia article. It's evidence, albeit anecdotal, that stroads also can exist in Asia, and not just in North America or Europe (or Africa). Now we just need 1 example from South America. The coverage is still weighted heavily towards North America, of course, but these citations suggests that is changing. NLeeuw (talk) 19:47, 27 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Australia

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Here is a journal paper which identifies some stroads in Deagon, Queensland, a suburb of Brisbane in Australia.
After citing or paraphrasing Marohn and NJB on definitions and examples, they write In Deagon's case, the main avenues, which serve as immediate arterial links to the local highway, are typical stroads. They include some pedestrian-based modes such as bus stations but neglect other pedestrian infrastructure, such as street trees.
Now I'm not entirely sure which avenues Patton and Pojani mean, but the authors mentioned in section 3.1 that each of the three Brisbane suburbs they reviewed had one or two main avenues. Most likely, they are Sandgate Road / Braun Street (south-north) and Board Street / Depot Road (east-west). 'The local highway' in question is Gateway Motorway, because that is connected to both of them. I think we are clear to add these two as our first examples of stroads identified in Australia. Incidentally, it's quite funny to me that satellite images suggest that the shape of these avenues does not change once it enters the built-up residental area of Deagon; all that happens is that Sandgate Road turns into Braun Street, and Depot Road turns into Board Street. Somehow, the planners knew that streets belong in residental areas, and roads belong outside it, but to my untrained eye, there seems to be no infrastructural difference. And Patton and Pojani seem to have concluded this as well. A potential semantic problem is that both avenues have just two lanes in either direction (so 4 in total) for most of their lengths, so I'm not entirely sure if they qualify as stroads, although all other characteristics apply, especially at the intersections where the turn lanes do make the total amount to 3 or 4. NLeeuw (talk) 20:26, 27 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
PS:  Done. NLeeuw (talk) 23:10, 27 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Iceland

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And look at this! Even in the very puristic Icelandic language, the word stroad has been adopted!
Hugtakið stroad á sér ýmsar hliðstæður með aðalgötum á Íslandi. Þó aðalgötur hérlendis séu sjaldan með fleiri en tvær akreinar, þá eru þær breiðar með mjóum gangstéttum og við þær er ýmiss konar þjónusta og verslun. Þar að auki þjóna þær líka því hlutverki að taka við umferð sem er að koma inn í bæinn og umferð sem á leið í gegn en dvelur ekki innan bæjarins. Stroad er dæmigert fyrir þá hönnun gatna sem gerði þær óaðlaðandi fyrir fólk og möguleikar til samskipta minnkuðu til muna. Það má því segja að þetta sé grunnurinn sem unnið er út frá við endurhönnun gatna með það að markmiði að stuðla að mannlífi.
[Autranslated by Google Translate]: The term stroad has various parallels with main streets in Iceland. Although main streets in Iceland rarely have more than two lanes, they are wide with narrow sidewalks and are lined with various services and shops. In addition, they also serve the function of receiving traffic entering the town and traffic passing through but not staying within the town. A stroad is typical of the design of streets that made them unattractive for people and greatly reduced opportunities for communication. It can therefore be said that this is a basis for the redesign of streets with the aim of promoting human life.
It's interesting here that the author notes that main streets in Iceland would rarely meet the criterion of having more than 2 lanes, but otherwise often have very similar characteristics as described by Marohn in the United States. Just like the avenues in Deagon, and Surabaya's Jalan Soekarno (which at present also has 2 lanes in either direction in most places), perhaps the total number of lanes is not the most defining aspect of what makes a stroad a stroad in the eyes of these scholars that analyse them. NJB and CityNerd also disagreed whether 3 or 4 lanes was a minimum to be called a stroad. It seems that this aspect of the concept is still somewhat fluid and has not yet gained wide acceptance. NLeeuw (talk) 20:57, 27 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps some historical background would help. Is "Stroad" the original condition, and specialization between high streets and transport routes an innovation, or perhaps vice versa?Jim.henderson (talk) 07:14, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
My understanding is that the "stroad" largely came into being with the automobile and related infrastructure changes. High streets would generally be Streets, while roads would be those country roads linking cities and rural communities. Such major thoroughfares would continue through cities and town at times, but the fundamental nature of horsedrawn vehicles would generally restrict their speeds in busy areas. Freeways didn't really exist conceptually until vehicle speeds became detached from the locomotive power of a horse, and the main issue the term Stroad is inspired by is mixing the through and local traffic in a way that interferes with both, and especially other forms of surface traffic (pedestrians, cyclists, etc). Joesolo13 (talk) 18:10, 10 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]