Discussions on this page have often led to previous arguments being restated, especially about "country" vs "state", and "Taiwan" vs "Republic of China", and "Taiwan is a part of China", and "Taiwan is a province of China". Please read recent comments and look in the archives before commenting on this topic.
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Keoni Everington (2020-06-15). "Wikipedia finally designates Taiwan as 'country'". Taiwan News. Retrieved 2020-06-16. In a request for comments (RFC) page created to debate the proper status of Taiwan in its Wikipedia entry, editors in May fiercely debated the merits of referring to Taiwan as a "state" or a "country."
Should the role and influence of Sun Yat-sen be introduced in the History section?
Important notice: A 2020 RfC has decided that Taiwan is to be referred to as a country. Changes to the article to refer to Taiwan as a state, island, province of China, or other definition are not permitted without consensus and may be reverted.
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The topic of this article is the Republic of China although its title has been moved to Taiwan.
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Taiwan was one of the Geography and places good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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@Swedish Countryball That claim is not supported by evidence. In Taiwan, Japan, Korea, and even Mongolia, the national seal performs the same verifiable core function: the authentication of formal state instruments, including statutes, executive acts, and diplomatic credentials. I state this as someone from East Asia. MayGlory123 (talk) 19:38, 29 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Slatersteven The national seal of Taiwan is part of a long-standing East Asian tradition. The Republic of China, established in 1912, inherited the Qing dynasty’s institutional legacy. Historically, the Imperial Heirloom Seal, created in the Qin dynasty, symbolized legitimate succession across dynasties until it was lost during the Song period. Subsequent dynasties produced their own state seals rather than inheriting a predecessor. Similarly, the ROC created its own national seal upon replacing the Qing. The national seal is distinct from the national emblem.
This seal remained in the article until the version of 17 January 2024, 07:24 special:diff/1196384355, when it was removed along with the national flower. While the removal of the national flower may be acceptable, the national seal should be retained, following the same practice as other East Asian countries such as Japan, Korea, and Mongolia. MayGlory123 (talk) 15:47, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That claim is inaccurate. In Taiwan, Japan, Korea, and even Mongolia, the national seal serves the same documented core function: the authentication of formal state instruments, including laws, executive orders, and diplomatic credentials. MayGlory123 (talk) 15:29, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Simply put, the seal isn't the coat of arms nor the emblem, and that is what is placed on the front page.
From the page for China:
"Usually, flags and emblems serve as primary representations of a country. Some countries don't even have a "seal", and if they do, they usually act as an emblem. I think they are referring to the stamp; they simply serve as stamps for official documents, but I think the most important thing here is to keep consistency with other countries." Swedish Countryball (talk) 15:34, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That argument overlooks the historical and cultural significance of the national seal in East Asia. Unlike a simple administrative stamp, the national seal of Taiwan (ROC) is a formal symbol of state authority, following a centuries-old tradition inherited from imperial China. It remained on the article until the version of 17 January 2024, 07:24 special:diff/1196384355, when it was removed. In East Asian countries such as Japan, Korea, and Mongolia, national seals are distinct from flags or emblems, yet they are recognized symbols of sovereignty and are routinely documented on official instruments. Therefore, the national seal is not merely a functional stamp; it carries historical and legal weight, and its presence on the article’s front page is consistent with the treatment of similar symbols in other East Asian countries. MayGlory123 (talk) 15:50, 30 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Again, consistency is more important than tradition.
@Slatersteven I have already provided the source; it is from a government website. If you switch the language to English, it will be perfectly clear. This is the original text.
Usage: The Seal of the Republic of China (Taiwan) is the official seal of state. It is used for marking credentials, instruments of ratification, instruments of acceptance, full powers, exequaturs, consular commissions, etc.
The Seal of Honor
Usage: The Seal of Honor is the official seal with which the head of state confers honors and decorations. It is used for stamping medal certificates, citations, commendatory plaques, and other such items. MayGlory123 (talk) 15:07, 28 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Technically that does not say its higher, that is just has a different function. But it does say it is the official seal of state, which is " used for marking credentials, instruments of ratification, instruments of acceptance, full powers, exequaturs, consular commissions, etc.", so it is just a stamp use to make official documents. Slatersteven (talk) 15:15, 28 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Slatersteven Additionally, the following is the original Chinese text from a Taiwanese government website, which further explains its significance as a national symbol and its practical use.
Since the official government website states that it is the seal representing the state, why can it not be included in the infobox like Japan, South Korea, and Mongolia? Moreover, this is not without precedent: it was previously included in the infobox, and the only reason given for its removal was that the infobox would be too long. Is this reasonable? Why remove the seal of Taiwan as the state-representing seal, yet not remove those of Japan, South Korea, and Mongolia? MayGlory123 (talk) 15:23, 28 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Slatersteven Moreover, the Taiwanese government’s official website explicitly lists four national symbols: the national flag, the national anthem, the national flower, and the national seal. This is not my personal interpretation; it is the government’s own official classification.
If one argues that the national seal does not hold a status comparable to that of the national flag, then what other authoritative source could possibly define its status, if even the government’s official website does not count? If the national seal truly lacked significance equivalent to a national symbol, the Taiwanese government would not include an unrelated or merely ceremonial object among its four national symbols. MayGlory123 (talk) 15:42, 28 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Slatersteven I believe that the Taiwanese government website at
is the most authoritative source regarding this issue. It explicitly states that the nation has four national symbols: the national flag, the national anthem, the national flower, and the national seal.
The text does not suggest that any one of these symbols holds a higher or lower status than the others. Rather, all four are indispensable and together constitute the Republic of China (Taiwan). MayGlory123 (talk) 16:01, 28 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The government website is already provided here. Can you explicitly cite any official source that concludes this does not have the same status as the national flag, in order to rebut the government’s own statement?
You have repeatedly demanded a source stating that it has the same status as the national flag. I have already provided the official conclusion from a government website. If you disagree with that conclusion, then please provide a source that contradicts the government’s position and demonstrates that it does not have the same status as the national flag.
I have repeatedly made this point because you have continuously questioned the sources, yet I have already provided evidence from the government website regarding its status as having the same weight as the national flag. The burden of proof lies with the party making the counter-claim. If you disagree, please present a credible source that demonstrates my statement is incorrect, rather than privately telling others that citing facts is “annoyingspecial:diff/1329911874WP:CIVIL. MayGlory123 (talk) 17:17, 28 December 2025 (UTC)Edited after reply[reply]
I have repeatedly made this point because you have continuously questioned the sources, yet I have already provided evidence from the government website regarding its status as having the same weight as the national flag. The burden of proof lies with the party making the counter-claim. If you disagree, please present a credible source that demonstrates my statement is incorrect, rather than privately telling others that citing facts is “annoyingspecial:diff/1329911874. MayGlory123 (talk) 17:17, 28 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The seal was removed two years ago to reduce clutter in a crowded infobox. It's still crowded, and I see no need to restore the seal to the infobox based on the arguments provided above. If someone wants to add it somewhere in the body text, I won't object. Phlar (talk) 22:23, 28 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Phlar The information in question is not derived from interpretation or inference, but directly from the official government website, which explicitly states that Taiwan has four national symbols. This is a clear and authoritative designation.
When an item is officially identified by the government as one of the national symbols, its inclusion in the infobox is a matter of accurate representation, not editorial preference. Excluding one of the four on the basis of “clutter” risks creating a misleading hierarchy among symbols where none is stated by the official source.
Moreover, comparable articles such as those of Japan, South Korea, and Mongolia include national seals or state emblems in their infoboxes despite similar space considerations. For consistency, layout convenience alone should not override the authoritative classification provided by the government. MayGlory123 (talk) 03:56, 29 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Chipmunkdavis The government website explicitly identifies four national symbols. If you believe that one of them should be treated differently in the infobox, please explain the basis for that distinction and provide sources to support it. MayGlory123 (talk) 04:10, 29 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sources don't really say much one way or the other for how infoboxes on Wikipedia should be laid out. I personally found the government website interesting in this regard, but the point was not made earlier and others seem less convinced (and it remains a primary source). Asking for things like sources for how infoboxes should be fit onto a page and generating replies through llms are unlikely to help advance the argument. CMD (talk) 04:12, 29 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Chipmunkdavis I’m simply pointing out that infoboxes are meant to summarize the most basic and well-established facts, such as those officially stated by the government of the Republic of China (Taiwan).
The official website explicitly states that there are four national symbols. Whether or not that point was raised earlier does not change what the source says. Excluding one of the four from the infobox is therefore not just a neutral layout choice, but a selective way of summarizing that information.
Any suggestion that my statements are generated by a large language model is entirely without evidence and appears to be a malicious guess. WP:AGFThis kind of claim violates standard Wikipedia discussion norms, which require editors to focus on verifiable sources rather than speculate about others’ methods.WP:NPA
If there is a substantive reason for treating one officially designated national symbol differently from the others in the infobox, it would be helpful to state that reason directly. MayGlory123 (talk) 04:32, 29 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Per mos:INFOBOXPURPOSE, the less information that an infobox contains, the more effectively it serves its purpose, allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance. And per wp:INFOBOXTOOLARGE, images should be selected with care not overwhelm the lead with decorative imagery. One reason to exclude the seal from the infobox is to reduce the number of distracting images. National seals of the Republic of China explains the use and history of the seals—it seems they are less prominent than the flag and emblem as national symbols, so editors have decided not to display the seals in the infobox, in the spirit of not overwhelming it with decorative imagery. Phlar (talk) 05:28, 29 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Phlar If you consider the government source unreliable, please provide a source that you believe can credibly refute the government’s position to support your argument..WP:OR It should be noted that your later statement, suggesting that the flag is more prominent than the national seal as a national symbol, appears to be your own original research and is not supported by any source. MayGlory123 (talk) 05:39, 29 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The government source is too close to the topic—it is not independent. Wikipedia prefers independent sources (see WP:IS).
But more to the point, where in the government source that you've quoted above does it say that the seal is as prominent or important as the flag or emblem? Phlar (talk) 15:02, 29 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
What part of wp:consistency (a disambiguation page) and MOS:CONSISTENT (a section about using a consistent variety of English within a given article) do you feel are relevant to this discussion?
There is no policy or guideline in Wikipedia saying that, just because some articles include something, other similar articles must also include that thing. This principle is described in WP:OTHERCONTENT.
@Phlar More importantly, in the government source I cited, where does it say that the national seal is less important or less prominent than the flag or the emblem?
The source explicitly states that the Republic of China (Taiwan) has four national symbols. Nowhere does it establish a hierarchy among them. On the contrary, the national seal is clearly described as “為代表國家之印信”—the official instrument representing the state.
Your position appears to rely on an implied ranking that is not stated in any source. You have not explained, with references, why the seal should be treated differently from the other officially designated national symbols. Absent such sources, excluding it from the infobox reflects an editorial judgment rather than a neutral summary of sourced facts.
I am not arguing that content must be included simply because it appears in other articles. My point is that when an official government source clearly defines an element as a national symbol, omitting it requires a source-based justification, not an assumption about relative importance.
At present, the distinction you are drawing treating the seal as less significant than the flag or emblem has not been supported by any citation and therefore raises concerns under Wikipedia’s neutralityWP:NPOV and original research principlesWP:OR, particularly when these restrictive interpretations are applied only to the Taiwan article. MayGlory123 (talk) 03:43, 30 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
If you find the discussion frustrating, you are free to disengage from it, but that does not justify attempting to silence others while continuing to debate. More importantly, no source has been provided to support your position. Wikipedia is not decided by headcount. Agreement by multiple editors does not outweigh the absence of evidence.
WP:VSo far, I am the only participant who has provided a concrete, verifiable source—a government website—to support my argument. By contrast, none of the opposing views have been supported by a single reliable citation. The most effective way to persuade others on Wikipedia is not repeated assertion or speculation, but the presentation of reliable sources. MayGlory123 (talk) 03:55, 30 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Every country is different. In the case of Taiwan, the government identifies four national symbols, and no official source indicates that any one of them has a higher status than the others. Not all countries are the same, and standards vary by country; you cannot apply a single set of rules to another country. For example, the United States cannot be used as a model for Taiwan. The United Kingdom is different as well, with both the royal arms and the Scottish arms existing separately. Turkey does not have an official national seal in practice. Japan, South Korea, and Mongolia, like Taiwan, all have national seals, while Brazil, Argentina, and Uruguay all include symbolic seals in their infoboxes. MayGlory123 (talk) 04:22, 30 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Some people have suggested that sources from the Republic of China (Taiwan) government may not be sufficient. I would like to supplement with additional authoritative references:
I agree that the flag anthem isn't needed in the infobox. I have added an image of the seal to the Culture section of the article, under the subheading National symbols. Perhaps the flag anthem could be moved there as well. Phlar (talk) 02:13, 31 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 November 2025
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
Please rework history section of the infobox as such.
| sovereignty_type = [[History of Taiwan|Formation]]
| established_event1 = [[Taiwan under Qing rule|Qing rule]]
| established_date1 = 1683
| established_event2 = [[Republic of Formosa]]
| established_date2 = 23 May 1895
| established_event3 = [[Taiwan under Japanese rule|Japanese rule]]
| established_date3 = 21 October 1895
| established_event4 = [[Retrocession of Taiwan]]
| established_date4 = 25 October 1945
| established_event5 = [[Constitution of the Republic of China|Current constitution]]
| established_date5 = 25 December 1947
| established_event6 = [[Retreat of the government of the Republic of China to Taiwan|Retreat of ROC to Taiwan]]
| established_date6 = 7 December 1949
| established_event7 = [[Additional Articles of the Constitution of the Republic of China|Additional Articles of the Constitution]]
| established_date7 = 1 May 1991
Certain dates may be up for discussion in the case of the constitution (and amendments); for instance do we start from the ratification, or from the date it became effective? TheodoresTomfooleries (talk) 06:57, 29 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Not done for now: Please provide a source that can be used to make the update when using an edit request template. CMD (talk) 04:25, 8 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]
level-3 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale..svg){kind=small}
MayGlory123 (talk) 09:44, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
Not done for now: Please provide a source that can be used to make the update when using an edit request template. CMD (talk) 04:25, 8 December 2025 (UTC)