Talk:Ukrainians

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Citizens of Ukraine

Surprised article doesn't mention that Ukrainians are also all the citizens of Ukraine, as all encyclopedias do mention (Encyclopedia of Ukraine, Encyclopedia of the history of Ukraine) right in the lead. Will add that later with sources. Manyareasexpert (talk) 16:06, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Many articles about European nations have a formula like "are an ... ethnic group ..., who share a common ancestry, culture, and history." I never saw a source for it. From Germans this formula was removed after a long and frustrating discussion. In addition to being unsourced, I think this formula is really wrong for Ukrainians. An understanding of Ukrainians as a political nation has a long tradition among Ukrainians and has been strengthened by the Russian aggression. One quote to illustrate this: "According to Putin, Russians and Ukrainians are "one people" because they are close in language, religion and history. He overlooks the fact that in the post-Soviet era, Ukrainians increasingly see themselves as a political nation, a nation by will (Willensnation, civic nation) that includes several ethnic and linguistic groups. That is why he was surprised that most Russian-speaking Ukrainians did not enthusiastically welcome the invading Russian troops, but on the contrary offered bitter resistance."^[1] Andreas Kappeler, a respected professor emeritus for East European history in Vienna, wrote this a few months after the Russian invasion of February 2022, and Timothy Snyder says something very similar in his Yale lectures.

References

1. Kappeler, Andreas. Ungleiche Brüder: Russen und Ukrainer vom Mittelalter bis zur Gegenwart. Russen und Ukrainer sind laut Putin "ein Volk", weil sie sich in Sprache, Religion und Geschichte nahestehen. Er übersieht dabei, dass sich die Ukrainer in postsowjetischer Zeit zunehmend als politische Nation, als Willensnation, die mehrere ethnische und sprachliche Gruppen umfasst, verstehen. Deshalb hat ihn auch überrascht, dass die meisten russischsprachigen Ukrainer die eingefallenen russischen Truppen nicht begeistert begrüßten, sondern im Gegenteil erbitterten Widerstand leisteten.

Rsk6400 (talk) 09:41, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is conflating two different things, the titular ethnic group and the demonym for citizens of Ukraine, who can of course be multi ethnic since the country is not homogenous. Saying "Ukrainians are an ethnic group that include ethnic groups such as Ukrainians" is convoluted and confusing. LeVivsky (ಠ_ಠ) 18:43, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Which sources are there to support the claim that Ukrainians are an ethnic group and nothing else ? If we make that claim in the lead sentence, we should be able to support it. Rsk6400 (talk) 05:44, 23 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think they are English-language sources claimed that Ukrainians are Slavic ethnic group.

• Plokhy, Serhii (7 September 2006). The Origins of the Slavic Nations: Premodern Identities in Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus (PDF). Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-0-521-86403-9. Retrieved 23 July 2025.
• Magocsi, Paul Robert (18 June 2010). A History of Ukraine: The Land and Its Peoples (2nd ed.). Toronto: University of Toronto Press. ISBN 978-1-4426-9879-6.

Absolutiva 14:49, 23 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

And do those sources support the claim that they are nothing else ? Rsk6400 (talk) 12:40, 24 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Only two sources that mentioned "East Slavic" as an ethnic group. Absolutiva 12:49, 24 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Number of Ukrainians in Russia

Data on the number of Ukrainians in Russia do not have a source.
The latest available official ethnic data were obtained during the 2021 Russian Population Census.
Due to the fact that the census was conducted in 2021, the data should not fall under the WP:RUSUKR.
There is no more reliable source for Russia than the data from Rosstat, the official national statistical bureau. There are also no alternative sources evidently refuting the data provided by them. So there is no feasible reason for not accounting their data in comparison with the data of other census bureaus. Pomoscj (talk) 21:07, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Russo-Ukrainian War started in 2014. Official sources in a country without freedom of the press cannot be trusted. Rsk6400 (talk) 05:51, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your opinion is clear.

Firstly, Rosstat is not a press, but a statistical bureau. WP:RS?

Secondly, please, provide me a link to the collegial, official decision of Wikipedia, in which Rosstat as organization is recognized as an unreliable source of information. Not your personal opinion, but the position adopted by the community. WP:NOTRELIABLE?

Thirdly, where did the data presented in the table come from? "Russia 1,864,000 (2023)" What is the source? Who made a research in 2023? WP:V? The only data in the entire table without a source.

I will wait for сlarification. Thanks in advance. Pomoscj (talk) 17:09, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As espected, no reaction. Then, the data should be changed to the one in 2010. Pomoscj (talk) 08:31, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 October 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Add missing template for {{pp-extended|small=yes}}, because it's already extended-confirmed protected. 5.58.98.183 (talk) 22:45, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done M.Bitton (talk) 00:51, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested copy editing done

All you editors who worked on the "Ukrainians" article, I've just completed the requested copy edit of the article made to the Guild of Copy Editors. I'll be happy to engage in discussion about what I did and why. Occasionally, I went a little beyond basic copy editing and did a little actual editing for clarity or flow.

1. One important thing I would strongly suggest should be the next major area you address is — as I explained in the clarification-needed template I placed on the last sentence of the Kievan Rus' subsection of the History section about Galicia-Volhynia — that more discussion is needed for the "singleton" statement about this state being the second important state, in contrast to Kievan Rus' and the Cossack Hetmanate, both of which have their own subheadings. If this state is so important as to be listed among three called out for reader attention, then it merits its own subheading with elaboration. Otherwise, the construction of the History section is lopsided. Augnablik (talk) 09:50, 21 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

2. I would also suggest trying to merge the Historiography and History sections, or else give more information under Historiography.

Number by country

The data on how many Ukrainians there are in different countries is extremely out of date e.g. there are now hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians in the UK after the war there created a lot of refugees. 2A00:23C7:CA80:7501:88E4:3B11:1853:AF86 (talk) 10:47, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]