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demons

110.174.242.151 (talk) 12:16, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As with most theological entities, the answer is a matter of faith; you may choose to believe or not believe in demons, and Wikipedia does not take a position on their existence. Many well-educated persons believe that demons exist, while many others do not. As supernatural beings, their existence is not subject to testing through scientific means; by definition science is limited to the natural world, and what can be subjected to tests of proof or disproof. As an encyclopedia, Wikipedia reports what is known or believed, which may include theological disputes about the reality of demons in one religion or another; but it cannot take sides in those discussions. Feel free to reach your own conclusions based on your religious beliefs and your own mind and experiences! P Aculeius (talk) 13:13, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Demons do reel. They also jitterbug. They are rarely known to square dance, though. Skyerise (talk) 20:17, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of beings here as demons insofar as they are translated as "demons" in Western sources but do not fit the concept (Asuras, the "Rageowrapper", Wendigo, Egyptian Demons, etc.). I am hesitant to simply remove them, but it also seems odd to put them on the same level of clearly demonic entities such as the Divs and Gallu, fallen angels. Besides that, there are also often short sections to express one simple idea such as the Baha'i section. Anyone any preference how we should handle them? Should we integrate them into other sections or move them to the main articles? VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 03:02, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hello i highjacked this talk post, can we post this in the Philippine section? or something like this, just read and review.

Spirits or creatures from Philippine folk beliefs

The last is a class of malevolent spirits or demons, as well as supernatural beings, generally collectively known as aswang, yawa, or mangalos (also mangalok, mangangalek, or magalos) among Tagalogs and Visayans. There are numerous kinds of aswang with specific abilities, behavior, or appearance. Examples include sigbin, wakwak, tiyanak, and manananggal. The first two categories of diwata can also be malevolent, what sets the third category apart is that they can not be appealed to with offerings and they are utterly pitiless. Most practices associated with them is to ward them off, banish them, or destroy them. They are never addressed nor worshiped in religious rituals.^{[1][2][3][4][5][6]}

I propose that sections Anti-material dualism be moved to Devil. I recently restructured the article and struggled with finding a proper place for Gnostic demons. They all share a demonization of matter, but they rarely speak about demons. If at all, they appear in creation stories, but, unlike most concepts of demons, are not expectde to interfere with human lives. An exception are the Astrestar from Manichaeism. The anti-material demons, including the Archons of various Gnostic sects, are abstract concepts and embody Evil. As such, most of the section may fit better to the article Devil, which speaks of evil supernatural beings in an abstract sense. There are a few reference to demonic entities in Mandaenism-section, but they are only reiterations of Semitic beliefs, mentioned elsewhere. The sources also seem to be too weak to establish a notability. VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 16:35, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The classification of some religions as "ethnic and folkloric" is problematic and not neutral POV because it assumes that the other religions in the article are not ethnic (when some of them, some of the time, demonstrably all; for example, Judaism) and because the word folkloric implies a lesser degree of development. I propose a more neutral word, "Other religions," because it is more neutral and still provides a general cover. If there are scholarly sources supporting a division of religions into "Ethnic and folkloric religions," I would like to see them, but no-one has provided such as yet. Smooinaghtyn (talk) 01:06, 4 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, it does not. Ethnic or "ethnic religions" is just proper terminology. It is true taht Judaism is also often classified as an ethnic religion. "Other" does not mean anything. It can cover literally everything. Scholarly works aout "folk-religion" and "ethnic religions" are absolute basic introductiory terms, I doubt anyone interested in that mater does not know about it. You also know, since you used it yourself in that comment ;) VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 11:35, 5 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You are asserting rather than proving so I'm going to revert my edit til you come up with a better justification, cheers Smooinaghtyn (talk) 18:32, 5 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. I restored your undo because I realised I was being petty and not following policy, but it seems to me that you're engaging in an argument to your own rather than in a good-faith, sourced discussion that addresses my concern Smooinaghtyn (talk) 18:45, 5 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Why should I spend time checking various of my papers if you delivered the argument yourself already?

By the way, I do not insist on keeping "ethnic and folkloric". In fact, I have been pretty undecided myself, as evident from the View History section. But I came to the conclusion that it is the best we have. 'Other' means too little. Maybe we can clean up the section and check if it can be integrated to one of the other sections? For example, the China-section will probably tie to Dharmic Religions? Someone just had to go through the sources and check if they comply to the Wikipedia Standards. It is something on my bucket list, but unfortuantely, I do not have the time for that. Another way would be to reduce (or rewrite) the paragraph so it fits "folkloric" alone. I would also prefer that over "ethnic" for reasons you already touched upon, so dispite my revert and the big fat red "warnign" notification, I am actually inclined (but not convinved) to agree with you. But the change must make thigns better not worse. Between us, the categorization of this article often gave me a little headache as it developed out of some "fan-like" writing-style a few years ago. So overall, dispite its importance, the article is still pretty much work in progress. I would genuninely appreciate your help (but it needs to improve not jumping from one problem to another). VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 12:37, 7 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a better image than Pazuzu? The idea that Pazuzu is a demon stems mostly from movies such as The Exorcist . Historically, Pazuzu was also a protector deity. This contradicts the definition of a demon (evil spirit). The text also does not mention Pazuzu at all, not even in the chapter about Mesopotamic demons. ~2025-38918-27 (talk) 23:38, 6 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Pazuzu was considered malevolent. He was used as a tutelary deity in the form of being expected to repel other demons, and to defeat his main rival, Lamashtu. Lamashtu was associated with miscarriages and cot deaths, while Pazuzu was depicted as a protector of pregnant women.Dimadick (talk) 01:04, 7 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

How is any of these functions malicious or demonic? ~2025-31601-51 (talk) 10:41, 11 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Because that was not his only function in legend. Pazuzu was considered one of the "Lilû (wind) demons", and he is variously described as the "Agony of Mankind", the "Suffering of Mankind", and the "Disease of Mankind" in texts. But he was also perceived as having hostile relations with other Lilû, which is why he is depicted attacking them or chasing them away:

• • "Another text also narrated by him describes Pazuzu encountering other lilû demons in his travels, and breaking their wings... "I ascended a mighty mountain that shook, and the (evil) winds I encountered there were heading West; One by one I broke their wings." "Dimadick (talk) 09:09, 12 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]