Talk:Ramones

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The first sentence of this article begins with "The Ramones" to comply with Wikipedia naming conventions. The relevant instruction states that "some bands – such as Eurythmics, Eagles, Pixies and Odds – do not have the in their names, even though they may sometimes (or even often) be referred to as "the (Name)" in everyday speech. In all cases, default to the form of the name that is actually used by the band themselves".

Ramones has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones Date Process Result May 18, 2006 Featured article candidate Not promoted October 13, 2006 Good article nominee Not listed September 29, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed October 26, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed April 17, 2008 Good article nominee Not listed December 13, 2008 Good article nominee Not listed November 7, 2009 Good article nominee Listed Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on April 23, 2023, April 23, 2024, and April 23, 2025. Current status: Good article

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Power Pop

The Ramones are, of course, a PUNK ROCK band, nothing else.

The first "Power Pop" source says: "Tom Petty, The Cars, Blondie, The Bangles, XTC, and even Ramones and R.E.M — in their early stage — and many others at some point had at least a song or two, if not more, that can easily be labeled as power pop." Yeah? The Ramones also have songs that are country ("questioningly"), hardcore ("animal boy", "weasel face", etc), acoustic ballads ("i want you around", "i won't let it happen", "don't come close" etc.), new wave ("chop suey", "howling at the moon"), girl group wall of sound ("baby i love you"), surf punk ("california sun", "surfin' bird", "sheena is a punk rocker", "do you wanna dance?", "rockaway beach", "surf city", "surfin safari" etc), horror punk ("chain saw", "pet sematary", "...basement", "zero Zero ufo"), hard rock ("death of me", "highest trails above", "i just wanna have something to do", etc.), and more. Should we add all these genres? Suppose I could find some blogs and a random scenester that remarks that "wart hog" and "the crusher" are the Ramones contributing to the development of rap rock (rap punk?)... would that be fair game for the infobox?

The second source is from a non-notable blog.

The third is from Punk Magazine founder John Holmstom, but as I have noted previously on this page- Holmstrom merely said in an interview "some people considered the Ramones power pop". He didn't identify who those people were... was it fans? musicians? journos? He was not writing that the Ramones were a Power Pop band in an article in his occasional function as a rock journalist.

I hate the "pop punk" tag too, but I can rewrite that part of the article to reflect the sources accurately. The "power pop" label is bunk.

Edit: I ended up leaving some reference to "power pop" in the article, in a way that doesn't mangle reality, but you've got to stop putting it in infobox. It isn't so, and THERE IS NO NOTABLE SOURCE, and never will be, THAT DESCRIBES THE RAMONES AS A POWER POP BAND. They are so strongly identified as purveyors of punk rock music, and you are diluting that truth with these ephemeral associations with other genres. Keithramone33 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 04:42, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Timeline

Hello.

In the timeline, if Richie Stern is not going to be counted as a bassist, then Dee Dee Ramone should not be counted as a guitarist. This is because Dee Dee was only a guitarist at the same time Richie Stern was a bassist. Only after Richie Stern parted ways with the Ramones did the band become a trio with Dee Dee switching from guitar to bass. That is what is attested by high quality sources such as:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=dBZlyEn5H1gC&q=richie+stern&pg=PT47&redir_esc=y#v=snippet&q=richie%20stern&f=false

I am amenable to having Dee Dee indicated as a guitarist in the timeline, but only if Richie Stern is counted as a bassist. As is suggested by the section above: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ramones#Richie_Stern_as_a_band_member, there has previously been no opposition to excluding Richie Stern as a member.

DeathTrain (talk) 16:37, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Personally, I disagree with removing Richie Stern as a member since sources in the article list it. Dee Dee should still be listed as a guitarist, it goes against the sources, and you are not just aloud to rewrite history HGP7 (talk) 02:42, 22 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I am not trying to rewrite history. I was not the editor who decided to exclude Richie Stern as a member in the first place; that was StefenTower who did so in response to a lack of opposition in the discussion above. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ramones&diff=1238258260&oldid=1238169069

In fact, I was the editor who wrote in the Dee Dee Ramone article that he actually played guitar while Richie Stern played bass in the early days of the Ramones. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dee_Dee_Ramone&diff=1263088059&oldid=1260717040

Furthermore, I was the editor who first added sourced info on Richie Stern to this article back in 2017. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ramones&diff=814238895&oldid=811628159

Dee Dee's tenure as a guitarist was solely confined to the time when Richie Stern played bass. Like I said, I am not opposed to having Dee Dee listed as a guitarist per se, but if he is, Richie Stern ought to be counted as a bassist. I am neutral on whether Richie Stern should be counted as a member or not. DeathTrain (talk) 01:10, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I would leave Stern out of the timeline and similarly leave Dee Dee's brief stint as guitarist out of the timeline, although of course both should be (and are) discussed in the narrative. I would also take out of the timeline Joey's as 1974 drummer and Dee Dee as 1974 lead singer, and at least for the color coding part just start with the point that Tommy joined and the original lineup solidified. That said, I wouldn't feel strongly enough to fight over any of this. These changes strike me as more minor improvements to an article that is good either way. 04:28, 23 January 2025 (UTC) CAVincent (talk) 04:28, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@HGP7: @CAVincent: Any response? It appears that StefenTower is retired. DeathTrain (talk) 15:42, 1 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't heard anything. I'd still go with starting the timeline (including members & instruments) at the point when Tommy joined as drummer. (And again, yes it is interesting and worth including in narrative that Joey started as drummer, etc.) CAVincent (talk) 01:44, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@HGP7: @CAVincent: I made it so that the lineup of Johnny, Joey, Dee Dee and Tommy is the first lineup as is CAVincent's preference. I am personally neutral on whether Joey and Dee Dee should be listed as the original drummer and lead singer, respectively. DeathTrain (talk) 16:40, 8 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Were or are

Why is the past tense used for bands who no longer exist, but the present tense used for old TV programmes? If the Ramones WERE a band, then surely Dynasty WAS a TV show. 87.114.59.9 (talk) 05:23, 12 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ramones are not pop-punk

Pop-punk emerged in the 90s, or around that period. They are only punk rock. If you still need more proof read this. They developed the sound of pop-punk, but they were never actually pop-punk. FloydCrafty (talk) 00:02, 2 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Noting: the references in the body of the article support the proposition that the Ramones influenced the later emergence of pop-punk, but are a best notably weak support for claiming that the Ramones were a pop-punk band and certainly don't support inclusion of the genre in the infobox. CAVincent (talk) 05:36, 2 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]